Twin Charging.....super and turbo....the 'Superbocharged'

Ok, so we've talked a little about twin turbo setups, now, I think we need to discuss supercharger and turbo setups! The reason I ask, is because a few people have said that twin turboing a 16v wont give me what I want, and that's plenty of torque low down, and I still fancy a challenge

So, for example, take a 2.0l 16v engine, strap an Eaton M62 and say a GT28 to it. how would you go about routing the charge? Into the Eaton first then on to the Turbo would be the most logical, but once the turbo spools up, will the super be able to deliver enough air, or will it start to choke the turbo? What I mean is, would you want to bypass the Eaton once you've spooled?

Personally with a GT28 you dont wanna be putting a supercharger on.

Well, I say GT28, maybe that was a bad example. Maybe something bigger, that takes a while to spool??

I would look into having a clutched pulley on the supercharger if I was you, so that it disengages at a certain rpm or boost level. Hell, you could probs design a controller for it Stu!

IIRC, the TSi engine superchargers have a magnetic pulley that disengages so the pistons don't melt. Or something.

That's how I would look into it.

I was/am reasearching this looking at the ol lancia Intagrale as my inspiration.
There's an awful lot of room behing a 16v head.
I'll try and dig out the vortex thread that I found on it.

Your all nutters!







And I like it!

ctwg60 wrote:Your all nutters!



And I like it!

Haha couldn't have said it better myself. Why not 4 turbos, one per cylinder?

mic_VR wrote:Why not 4 turbos, one per cylinder?

Well, that's a ridiculous idea........I wonder if it would work? I guess it would....

Seriously though, the clutching of the Supercharger might be an idea. Could you have a secondary throttle that would only open once the turbo had spooled, to bypass the supercharger, and then open the clutch, so it doesn't sap any power? I remember reading a while back about that Lancia, but can't remember how they configured it.

Anyone know how the TFSI engine is configured?

4 turbos would require an insane exhaust gas flow rate! You'd eiother need turbos the size of a child's hand, else they would never spool.

sounds perfectly possibly Stu. Also, TFSI info is freely available, do a little searchage.

I'll hit google later on

I agree, you'd need massively small turbos (nice turn of phrase Stu )

Hmm an engineering plaything or a serious tool?
Pretty cool either way.
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So lets talk basics first.
Eaton.
How easy/hard are they to mount to our engines?

First point I'd say is do it to a left hand drive car, for the space and plumbing! There's a thread on vortex about eatons and dual charging. The only one on the top twenty page has woeful power and torque though. Obviously not done well.

I've thought about this myself as you do! And I figured the best way to get a reliable system would be to take a written off 1.4 twin charged modern VW vehicle and adapt the system to the 2.0TFSI engine and then increase the size of the turbo or SC or both. Expensive and would require farication no doubt but I bet you could use it every day and go very fast!

Can you remember the belgian 16vtwin60

This might be the wrong video. I cant get youtube to work, it says i need to install the latest player so i click the link go through the motions and it says installed successful, go back to youtube and says i need to install the latest player again over and over again no matter how many times i install it.

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Then there was the triple turbo VR6 in America with the engine in the back of a Caddy if you remember that one.

Yup that is definitely a twin g60. Christ, it revs well!

You see, I'm not completely nuts about DIY twin charging!

i think a twin(turbo+charger) would have a diff feel.
That does sound strong tho.
But imagine just as the charger is finished providing it's laughs a fresh wave of turbo torque pinging you towards the horizon.

..
oh my.

You see, I'm not completely mental.....

Any ideas how to get youtube working so i can see the vid.

I read about the twinG60 in PVW a couple of years ago, it gave 2 bar which remember that will provide enough boost for most and zero lag, no need to have the turbo too. Easier to plumb just connect both charger outlets to the same boost pipe to intercooler, Rob is the master in getting the belt set up right.

Super and turbo really is way too much work, honestly.

junkie wrote:Any ideas how to get youtube working so i can see the vid.

I read about the twinG60 in PVW a couple of years ago, it gave 2 bar which remember that will provide enough boost for most and zero lag, no need to have the turbo too. Easier to plumb just connect both charger outlets to the same boost pipe to intercooler, Rob is the master in getting the belt set up right.

Super and turbo really is way too much work, honestly.

yeah but I like an impractical challenge.
I rekon they would both require some fabrication tbh.
I'm keeping an open mind to it all anyway
I wouldn't use a clutch system.Would keep it simple.
I would just feed the turbo into the charger.
Intercooling would be an issue and I guess mapping like any engine install would make or break it.
[flash

So you'd go turbo into supercharger, rather than the other way round? I suppose that trying to push air through a turbo would cause extra strain on the turbine blades and shaft??

Yeah I definately wouldn't force feed a turbo from a charger tbh.I would of thought it would be better the other way around.The charger should be up and running by the time a moderate sized turbo was coming on boost.

Or rather than a clucth system,just have the charger free wheel once the turbo starts producing x amount of boost by diverting boost straight into the TB via your charge cooling and away from the input of the charger.

Here is a bit more on that lithuanian twin charged Corrado

You can't really tell from the text or the pictures how he's run the boost, although, it dos look like turbo first. I wonder if it bypasses the supercharger above a certain threshold?

i read an article a while ago in an american vw/bmw tuning magazine (while i was in kandahar - hopefully you can let me off!)

there was a twin-charged e46 328 in there.
iirc they got round that by having the supercharger on a clutched pulley (or something similar - basically it disengaged over about 3-3.5k rpm), then the turbo took over.
also they had separate intakes for each blower, before they went into a common intake to the throttle body (there were some 1-way valves involved i think)
i thin that's how they did it anyway - google it and you might find some more stuff out

keep us posted - love original stuff like this

Yeah, I'd have thought one plenum with two inlets, or two inlets into the intercooler would have been the way forward, having butterflies in each pipe would be the wayforward too with the supercharger clutched, reason being, at low RPM, the turbo experiencing back pressure from the supercharger could cause it to stall, and at high RPM, the supercharger experiencing back pressure would put a lot of strain on it, and the drive belt.