02S gearboxes

Has anyone seen one of these is the metal? I remember reading somewhere (other than t-c.com) that the 02S was basically an 02A with an extra cog, i.e. not like the twin output shafted (hehe) 02M, and therefor was quite an easy fit into the Corrado/Golf bays

Been looking at this myself actually and I believe they are fittable to the corrado using the gearbox mount bracket off the standard box.

Not sure on actual dimensions but I might be tempted to have a punt on one from a mk5 GTi if I can find one cheap enough.

i have had a few of these apart and they are very much like the 02a/02j so should bolt up with very little effort,only prob i can see is they have no speedo drive
the mk5 gti dont use the 02s mostly 1600's and diesels

jimmy123 wrote:i have had a few of these apart and they are very much like the 02a/02j so should bolt up with very little effort,only prob i can see is they have no speedo drive
the mk5 gti dont use the 02s mostly 1600's and diesels

Interesting! So, how do they calculate vehicle speed? Do they use the engine speed combined with which gear you are in?

What could be a good thing though is that the diesel ratios should be better suited to a 16vT anyway

they use the road speed sensors from the abs for dash speed,i have been trying to get my hands on one to see if the bellhouseing case from a 02a/02j could be fitted with the diff to give a speedo drive just havnt managed to get one to try yet, 1 thing about them is the diff pins have a habit of coming through the caseings as they are only pined with a rowpin as standerd

jimmy123 wrote:they use the road speed sensors from the abs for dash speed,i have been trying to get my hands on one to see if the bellhouseing case from a 02a/02j could be fitted with the diff to give a speedo drive just havnt managed to get one to try yet, 1 thing about them is the diff pins have a habit of coming through the caseings as they are only pined with a rowpin as standerd

It'd be interesting if the bellhousings were compatible. Knowing VW, I wouldn't be surprised if they were.

Now, here is my ignorance coming out, what is a rowpin?

sorry that should have been dowl pin its just a small hollow sprung steel pin that driven through the diff pin to hold in in

Ah so that's how they do the vehicle speed. Kind of scuppers any wheel and tyre changes I'd imagine? Mind you, I guess it's no different to a gearbox hall sender as it doesn't know what wheels you're using anyway.

For high torque applications I don't think the O2S is a great move tbh. I've seen far too many O2A and O2Js smashed to pieces from boost.

The input shaft containing 1st and 2nd gear is notoriously weak, as is the 3rd cog.

The O2M appears to be indestructable but it's a heavy gearbox and there are fitment complications.

So that leaves either a mixture of TDI and petrol gears in an O2A case, or a gearset from SQS or Gemini (if you can find one). The Quaife set is OK, but not a torque happy one by all accounts.

I guess it depends on your goals. A typical VR6 gearbox can handle 350lb ft torque so long as you don't floor it over bumps and ruts etc. Any more and 1st thru 3rd are living on borrowed time.

I had one of these off the FSI engine (sold it for more than I'd paid for the engine and box together ) and the chap was well happy with it, straight fit.

i agree thought that it's actually not that well suited as a performance 6 speed if you're going for big power (as you no doubt are Stu!!!).

kevhaywire wrote:<SNIP>The O2M appears to be indestructable but it's a heavy gearbox and there are fitment complications.

kevhaywire wrote:<SNIP>A typical VR6 gearbox can handle 350lb ft torque so long as you don't floor it over bumps and ruts etc. Any more and 1st thru 3rd are living on borrowed time.

Would the 02M fit onto a 16v lump though? The 02A off a VR is different to a 16v, so wouldn't the 02M off a 24v/R32 be the same mounting? I realise the 02M is quite a bit different anyway due to the dual output shafts.

saysomestuff wrote:i agree thought that it's actually not that well suited as a performance 6 speed if you're going for big power (as you no doubt are Stu!!!).

Perhaps

all the 6 cylinder gearboxs have a diffrent bellhouseing bolt pattern to the 4's so they will not fit but there are o2m's in fwd 4 cylinder pattern but mostly on diesels and some 20v's such as the 180 anniversary golf and some seat's

jimmy123 wrote:all the 6 cylinder gearboxs have a diffrent bellhouseing bolt pattern to the 4's so they will not fit but there are o2m's in fwd 4 cylinder pattern but mostly on diesels and some 20v's such as the 180 anniversary golf and some seat's

Aaaaah, I thought they were 6 cylinder only for some reason

naa the 6 cylinder ones are mostly 4wd as well so would make it hard work useing one of them

I'd go for the custom SQS 5 speed ratios if I had the cash.

Can you fit the 4 cylinder bell housing to the 6 cylinder gearbox housing?

Bit arse about face, but interesting.

What about the Audi TT 225? That must have had quite a beefy gearbox?

I'm sure someone said that had an O2M in it?

Yeah Stu, the dual shafts is what causes a bit of headscratching when converting an O2M to FWD applications. If you don't use it as intended, the gearing is incredibly short, top speed is ridiculous, something like 124mph at 7000rpm if I remember right.

VW did actually fit an O2M to FWD 24V Boras and Golfs in the states, so it's possible to just get a new FWD bell housing etc to convert it to a 2WD. Otherwise you have to fabricate a blanking plate and change the gears about, apparently.

That's why I suggested a gearset. It keeps the original (and imo) slick shifting and feeling gearbox, but massively stronger. I know for a fact the O2A casing will shatter before an SQS gearset even thinks about letting go. Did I show you the picture of the O2A casing that shattered at 800whp/tq? The SQS gears inside it were perfect

Am I right in thinking that the bracket at the opposite end of the bell housing needs to be ground off, as it isn't required because of the way the mk4 engine/gearboxes were 'hung' rather than 'sat', if you catch my drift??

I think I'd really go for one of these Eurospecsport items, the gearing is excellent! No massive drop in res between 1st and 2nd and you cn actually get some good work done in first.

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Cost money though but for a fully built box ready to bolt on I DON'T THINK IT'S EXTORTIONATE! OOPS CAPS.

Rally short for me with the 3.38 diff and the 0.75 6th!

Ah yes, I keep forgetting about the American Gemini cloners

Prices a little better than Gemini's though at £2880 inc VAT and ID (but plus shipping) for the VR6 kit. I'd go Race long with the 3.38 myself

Are they the same semi helical gears as the Gemini's?

Well we can dream! I don't know about the helical gears but I'd like to pickup an SQS sequential syncho changer (shifter) too along with a wavetrack diff. Pah £5k on the transmission, drop in the ocean.

Interestingly enough though the transmission is viewed upon like a white good, i.e. a necessary evil, but it can actually give you a huge performance gain if you choose wisely. After all, the trans is a pretty nifty torque multiplier Still, you know all that anyway and £5K, pah, it's nothing Especially when you compare that to 4 times the cost for a proper xtrac sequential box! Mind you, would you really want the clunking and chuntering of dog shifting straight cut gears on a road car?

No I wouldn't! These are the first boxes I've seen that give a proper first gear ratio and thus don't have the big drop in revs to 2nd which is ultimately a huge loss of wheel torque. The Rally Long or Race Long (assuming I can pull off at the ratio) box's with a 0.38 diff would see me losing pretty much no wheel torque except for a bit of wheel spin maybe. Not sure an LSD would be necessary for straightline traction given that they are the correct ratio's. Gives a nice 165mph at 6k for me with the 0.75 6th.

How do i hide this purchase from the wife?!?

EDIT: Funny what you say about the gearboxes being seen as a "white good". My son who is 6 and has no idea how a car works/is driven thinks the gear stick is the go faster lever. I've unintentionally given him the biggest engineering lesson of his life! Well maybe an exaggeration.

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I LIKE!

I think I've just let out a little bit of sex wee.....

mrbeige wrote:I think I've just let out a little bit of sex wee.....

TRYING NOT TO PICTURE THAT!

Just what I was looking for!

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