Best cheap 2l bottom end for 16v g60

Just reading dirtytorques thread and was wondering can i build a 16v for forced induction using say a 2E bottom end with KR head?
So far im running a standard KR with stacked headgaskets but love 2l.

Whats the options?

1) 2E 8v tall block with 16v head, but you'll need to use the intermediate shaft and pulley and crank pulley off the KR. You'll also need to get the pistons clearanced for the valves.

2) ABF tall block and again use spacer or stacked gaskets

3) 9A/6A (Audi) short block and use spacer or stacked gaskets

The cheapest option will be the third probably, but the 2E has the strongest rods. Also the ABF and 2E because of their longer rods have a better rod ratio, aiding cylinder filling etc. The ABF has the best standard cams for forced induction.

HTH

yeah got ABF cams fitted, they have less overlap is that correct?

Flusted wrote:yeah got ABF cams fitted, they have less overlap is that correct?

Yup and more lift!

il be cocky and state 10.6 mm lift over kr inlet 9.6mm and exhaust 10.2mm

I'd go with a valve clearanced 2E if top end power was your aim.

Im after more lower torque to be honest, its quite powerful as it is, just looking at the bigger picture

Well I'm not sure how much extra low-end torque you would gain but the shorter 220mm blocks with 144mm rods give a much lower rod to crank ratio which should improve the low-end. Dirtytorque has just valve clearanced the pistons from a audi 80 2.0 3A block with 144mm rods. Checkout his build thread on here. Not easy to come by though as the engine was only produced for 2-3 years 88-90.

Dirtytorque estimates a 8:1 CR with an ABF metal HG.

Has the better breathing assembly at the front of the block also!

^^^^^ 8.23:1 is the final result of a 16v head on an 8v bottom end iirc. You can get away without clearancing on a 2E bottom end but you will be cutting it fine at high rpm incase you get valve float.

To change the 8v to a 16 bottom end you need to fit the KR intermediate shaft and machine the endgear to clear conrod number 4, change the crank pulley to the KR and clearance the pistons for piece of mind. Relativelly quick and easy conversion. The 3A (found in 2ltr Audi 80's around G plate era) engine for a reliable cheap job is better than the 2E because although the 2E has a beter rod ratio due to less dwell angle this only comes into it's own at higher rpm. The extra weight of the rods far outweighs the benefits at low to mid rpm throttle response.
Personally though you can take a 9A block and skim the pistons to drop the compression ratio to 9.3:1. The higher compression ratio works very nicelly with a supercharged setup if you are looking for low down driveability. This will run reliably providing the engine is mapped correctly. At the end of the day all the 5 cyl lumps are 9.3:1 and run 1.5bar boost chipped reliably at 300hp+ Standard S2 pistons having been proven to in excess of 500hp.

JNLRacing wrote:^^^^^ 8.23:1 is the final result of a 16v head on an 8v bottom end iirc. You can get away without clearancing on a 2E bottom end but you will be cutting it fine at high rpm incase you get valve float.

That was my estimate without the valve pockets.With them I rekon towards 8:1 .
I'll measure directly when I'm done to see exactly what i'm running.

JNLRacing wrote:

To change the 8v to a 16 bottom end you need to fit the KR intermediate shaft and machine the endgear to clear conrod number 4, change the crank pulley to the KR and clearance the pistons for piece of mind. Relativelly quick and easy conversion.

I have used the intermediate shaft coil pump and pump cog and crank pulley from an ABF.

Will I also need to machine the end gear ?
Not heard that one b4..

JNLRacing wrote:

Personally though you can take a 9A block and skim the pistons to drop the compression ratio to 9.3:1. The higher compression ratio works very nicelly with a supercharged setup if you are looking for low down driveability. This will run reliably providing the engine is mapped correctly. At the end of the day all the 5 cyl lumps are 9.3:1 and run 1.5bar boost chipped reliably at 300hp+ Standard S2 pistons having been proven to in excess of 500hp.

stop putting ideas in my head.

If you have used the ABF intermediate shaft then you dont need to clearance it as it is a smaller cog to clear the 2 ltr stroke crank from factory but at £169 a piece new I tend to prefer to remachine the KR for a tenner as they are ten a dozen.

ahh,ok.
I just bought a whole ABF bottom end because it had all the bits that I needed for a 2.0 litre build.
Still have the carcass in my garage actually.

Im after an ABF bottom, cant find 1 anywhere

^^^ got one on the shelf but needs a rebuild as in hone, bearings rings etc.... pm me if interested

JNLRacing wrote:If you have used the ABF intermediate shaft then you dont need to clearance it as it is a smaller cog to clear the 2 ltr stroke crank from factory but at £169 a piece new I tend to prefer to remachine the KR for a tenner as they are ten a dozen.

With that in mind, if you were to use a TDI crank, would you have more or a clearance issue? I'm using a 9A intermediate shaft in my 2E block.

With a TDI crank the clearance issue gets worse and depending the block you are using the bottom of the bores need notching aswell. 9A intermediate shaft does teh job fine too like the ABF.

I am thinking about sourcing a 2E bottom end, Removing the Rods & Pistons then valve clearancing the Pistons at work and then putting them into the ABF block?? I take it this would work aswell??? to reduce CR to around 8:1

I was dead set towards using a spacer gasket... but looking at it.. a standard ABF is around 10.5 : 1?? and the spacer gasket drops the CR down to 9.5:1 or roughly that anyway.. i am just wondering if i would be pushing my luck running 1bar + through the engine with the Comp Ratio being towards the high end of the scale???

Shaggy wrote:I am thinking about sourcing a 2E bottom end, Removing the Rods & Pistons then valve clearancing the Pistons at work and then putting them into the ABF block?? I take it this would work aswell??? to reduce CR to around 8:1

I was dead set towards using a spacer gasket... but looking at it.. a standard ABF is around 10.5 : 1?? and the spacer gasket drops the CR down to 9.5:1 or roughly that anyway.. i am just wondering if i would be pushing my luck running 1bar + through the engine with the Comp Ratio being towards the high end of the scale???

Your mapping and intercooling will need to be very very good.

sure I got a set of 2E pistons somewhere will have a look for you as it would be cheaper than buying the whole bottom end.

ok bud! Let me know if you do have some as i will more than likely have them off you. ;-)