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Electronic or Mechanical Launch Control

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Electronic or Mechanical Launch Control

Post by boost panda on Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:58 pm

I don't know if anyone has covered this, but is it possible to use a second ABS ECU to use the ABS sensors to run a TCS? Basically, you'd want the ECU to apply the brakes in directly the opposite way to how the ABS works (i.e. to apply the brakes when the wheel is spinning too quickly, as opposed to when it is slowing down too quickly). I'm not sure if it'd even work, but at least it's an idea cyclops

Last time I even considered things like this was to do with Launch Control on what is probably now a very old Omex box of tricks.

Anyone got any thoughts? Would faffing with the old VW ABS system just not really be worth the hassle?

Discuss.
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Re: Electronic or Mechanical Launch Control

Post by mic_VR on Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:22 am

I believe Kev has looked into this and he believes he can run traction control through his DTA system.

For an aftermarket system try this Racelogic system out for size.
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Re: Electronic or Mechanical Launch Control

Post by CorradoVR6-Turbo on Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:58 am

i like the idea of that racelogic,would it be cheaper than a diff ? and do the same if more of a better job?

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Re: Electronic or Mechanical Launch Control

Post by mic_VR on Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:36 am

Think you'd still need a diff tbh.

If you think how easy it is to break traction in a standard car without a diff, the traction control would be cutting the power back to that kind of level.

I suspect it'll work at it's absolute best when you've already maximised the normal mechanical grip but have more power than it can cope with
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Re: Electronic or Mechanical Launch Control

Post by KipVR on Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:38 pm

I've used the Racelogic traction control and while it's good, it does have its downsides, mainly due to the fact it's a Drive Torque control system (AMR) meaning it can only control the power output by preventing cylinders from firing (blocking fuel injector pulses) and you're often better off with a more gentle right foot! The DTA will operate in the same way.

Many 1994 onwards VW's have The Bosch ABS 6 system which has a very limited traction control capability which only works under 5mph and all it does is crudely brake a spinning drive wheel. More modern TCS such as Bosch ABS 8 is a fully integrated TCS System for both drive and braking, is far more adaptable to individual cars, and is capable of reading changes in coefficient of friction helping it to cope with ice etc.

To answer your question monkey, I don't think you would be able to get it to work properly as TCS requires extremely accurate braking pressures and control of them is usually done with a piston type device added onto the hydraulic unit, unless you have that it won't work well and the car would be awfull to drive (imagine if the system braked one wheel too much whilst accelerating).

You could try lifting a system off a much later car, but then you've got the problem that it requires stering angle and throttle imputs, not to mention all the data communicates via CAN......

Nothings easy is it!! Having said that the Racelogic system is perfect if all you want to do is blat down the 1/4 mile. Very Happy
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Re: Electronic or Mechanical Launch Control

Post by kevhaywire on Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:43 am

The DTA has a 3 stage TC strategy. Firstly a mild ignition retard, followed by an aggressive ignition retard and if there's still spin, ignition + fuel cut.

For both the Racelogic and DTA TC, you need Hall sender wheel speed sensors. The Corrado ABS ones won't work as they're inductive. I do have a circuit diagram to convert an inductive signal to Hall effect.

As Kip says though, just use your right foot for TC Very Happy

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Re: Electronic or Mechanical Launch Control

Post by coxylaad on Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:51 am

i dont think you can beat sheer mechanical grip. Get an ATB and to be honest the way the quaife works it will spin both wheels together, so braking indivual wheels will be a waste of time, the best you can get is cuttin the power, but as has been said, you can do that with your right foot!

I have the r32 abs traction control system in my car, and I am interested to see how it turns out, as a) its in a different car with different weights and stuff, and b) I am fitting 911 front brakesa and VR fronts on the rear, so an automatic 'dab' of the brakes on 1 wheel might be a bit vicious!

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Re: Electronic or Mechanical Launch Control

Post by mrbeige on Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:40 am

coxylaad wrote:I have the r32 abs traction control system in my car, and I am interested to see how it turns out, as a) its in a different car with different weights and stuff, and b) I am fitting 911 front brakes and VR fronts on the rear, so an automatic 'dab' of the brakes on 1 wheel might be a bit vicious!
To be fair, you should be able to calibrate that, but in order to do that, getting the car to use the traction control may be a bit hairy What a Face

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Re: Electronic or Mechanical Launch Control

Post by kevhaywire on Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:27 am

coxylaad wrote:i dont think you can beat sheer mechanical grip. Get an ATB and to be honest the way the quaife works it will spin both wheels together, so braking indivual wheels will be a waste of time, the best you can get is cuttin the power, but as has been said, you can do that with your right foot!

But your reflexes are no where near fast enough stop turbo torque spinning the wheels on a wintery road. And your reflexes get slower and slower as you age Very Happy The front wheel only has to move 1 tooth out of sync with the rear wheel and instantly the ECU cuts the ignition. Taking as little as 10 degrees off the timing on boost will knock the torque right back and stop the spin.

coxylaad wrote:I have the r32 abs traction control system in my car, and I am interested to see how it turns out, as a) its in a different car with different weights and stuff, and b) I am fitting 911 front brakesa and VR fronts on the rear, so an automatic 'dab' of the brakes on 1 wheel might be a bit vicious!

It won't be vicious. VAG's "brake dabbing" TC is a bit too laid back imo. I think the best TC is stopping the very thing that's causing the spin in the first place - the engine Very Happy

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Re: Electronic or Mechanical Launch Control

Post by boost panda on Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:47 am

KipVR wrote:Nothings easy is it!! Having said that the Racelogic system is perfect if all you want to do is blat down the 1/4 mile. Very Happy

I guess if something's easy it's not worth doing Laughing cheers for that post though, very informative! My 90 spec corrado doesn't have ABS (think I have my hands full already!) but I was musing with my bro about whether you could adjust the ABS to act like that.
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