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Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

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Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by jmc on Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:56 am

I've never been able to find a definitive answer to this.... I upgraded my original G60 brakes for Porka 4 pots, but never chnaged the master cylinder. Th brakes have always felt OK, but not awe inspiring like I thought they would. Should I have changed the master cylinder for a larger one and if so which one please??
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by junkie on Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:33 pm

No need to change i think, its another case of people/sales spiel bigging stuff up, anything you do is meant to be the best thing since sliced bread, so you get it then feel disappointed. Maybe....

What pads you got?
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by jmc on Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:46 pm

Pagid 4-2-1 Simon. And I'm wondering more and more as to whether that is one of the problems - perhaps they're not getting warm enough in normal use... Especially given the size of the brake discs - 315mm diamter 25mm thick vented AP racing discs - I get the feeling they are rather good at cooling as well.
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by Toad on Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:10 pm

Worth trialling them on a deserted bit of Runway with a few 100-0mphs?
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by mrbeige on Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:27 pm

I'd be tempted to try some Ferodo FD2500s, Jonathan. Awesome pads, good from cold, excellent warm Smile

Never been a fan of Pagid.

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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by junkie on Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:41 am

Agree i use those pad too, the difference going from the standard Seat pads to DS2500was like the same difference goin from the standard calipers to the Seat 4 pots.
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by jmc on Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:05 am

Mmmh, definately food for thought - the DS2500 sound good. When I was bedding the pads in on mine, and everything was really tight (and hot) they were awesome which makes me think operating temperature is my enemy here.

Out of interest how difficult is swapping pads over with a Porka calliper setup. Never done it myself - always had a garage do it, but I am assuming it's not too hard...
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by junkie on Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:14 am

If they are the same Brembo style as mine then its wheel off, remove a clip then drift out the 2 pins that holds tha pads in, change pad and pin back in, clip on then wheel on, easy.
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by jmc on Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:10 pm

Oh right, simple as that. Are the cylinders easy to get back into the callipers then?? Bit of leverage and the brake fluid reservoir lid off...
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by junkie on Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:51 pm

I just used a flat blade to push against the pistons using the brake disc as leverage. I did not remove the fluid reservoir.
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by Flusted on Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:58 pm

dont they do a 25mm master cylinder?
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by jmc on Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:05 am

I'm still running the MC off my G60, which AFAIK is 22mm (or could be 23). You don't happen to know any more info about the 25mm MC do you Flusted - who makes them, part number etc??
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by Flusted on Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:49 am

I think they come on Audi RS2s? there was 1 on ebay a while ago? also G60BV on rado forum fitted 1.
I had a 23mm 1 off a passat once and it was alloy?
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by jmc on Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:30 am

Cheers Flusted. And did the 23mm one make a perceptible difference??
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by Flusted on Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:06 am

i fitted to my golf gti when upgrading to 256s so couldnt tell
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by jmc on Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:54 pm

Doh, I'm such a muppet - just realised I posted this thread in the wrong section Embarassed Nice one brains....
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by dirtytorque on Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:57 pm

jmc wrote:Doh, I'm such a muppet - just realised I posted this thread in the wrong section Embarassed Nice one brains....

ban him.
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by dirtytorque on Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:57 pm

Wink
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by jmc on Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:59 pm

Doh, I've only had a few threads, and already used my joker Laughing
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by Toad on Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:28 pm

I hadn't noticed before. Moved it anyway.

Going back to your point about expecting too much from mods. I just wonder if that is the case... It's not very often I'm overwhelmed by mods. And I'm sure those that do frighten me aren't 100%.

I've been for a blast in 2 300hp/350lbft corrados with brembos, and was impressed/scared by the accelleration and braking of both. But I don't know quite what the pedal feel was like.

Suppose I could just ask...

Simon. What do you think of your brakes? Lol

Sorry if this seems a bit rambley...
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by dirtytorque on Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:04 pm

Toad wrote:

Simon. What do you think of your brakes? Lol


He wouldn't know.
When I was in the car it seemed like he 4got where it was.

He's talking about the pedal in the middle Simon. Wink
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by junkie on Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:20 pm

Hahahahaha quality, its like an automatic kind of, just 2 pedals needed 95% of the time.

Well, i like my pedal feel personally, very predictable at worst, this may seem obvious but very slight touch gives very slight light braking, press normal pressure and scrubs off speed nicely and really stamp on them and you need to catch your head, i must say Toad i was running standard Seat pads when you and Rob were in too and it now stops alot better than it did before, after 4-5 heavy braking they faded badly on the standard pads, the DS2500 just keep on going and even get better as the disc gets hotter which seems strange to me, bit according to Kev they keep a nice 0.4-0.5 coefficient or something, which is a nice fast road pad rating, no need to get heat into them to work and no fade when hot.

My car has no ABS either so you have to be a little careful at times as it can lock up easily in the right condition, high speed it probably could do, but going from high speed heavy braking its when nearly stopped they will lock up, ie approaching a junction, not good, i dont need more powerful braking at the moment as its sufficient enough but when i do or when my discs are worn i will get some proper 2 piece discs for that bit extra lol.
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by jmc on Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:27 pm

Hmmm, thanks Simon, friction level of 0.4-0.5 is definately higher than the 421's I have (table below from the Pagid site)

Cold 0.36
At 100°C 0.38
At 300°C 0.42
Max at (@ 500°C) 0.45
Constant working temperature: 300 – 500°C
Max temperature for short period only: 550°C

Especially as mine will spend most of their time between 0 and 100 degrees given my driving style Laughing. Seems as though this could be the problem. Is the friction scale coefficient linear - so is 0.4 10% more friction that 0.36 for example? Presumably one manufacturers coefficient of friction is comparable with anothers Rolling Eyes
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by junkie on Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:39 pm

No idea mate you need Kev to answer those questions, but yes it seems the problem is your driving style lol, give them some lol.
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Re: Bigger MC's with uprated calipers

Post by jmc on Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:44 pm

Yeah, but being a tight Yorkshireman I don't want to wear my brakes out Laughing
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