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2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by ctwg60 on Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:37 pm

mrbeige wrote:Massively pleased for you mate. A proper bit of engineering......And all with standard charger reliability! A credit to your skill....and patience Wink

Cheers, this forum is a big help. study Very Happy

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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by ctwg60 on Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:38 pm

mrbeige wrote:When you post up on vortex, link the thread on here, I'd like to see what the US guys make of it Smile

Will do! Very Happy

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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by Toad on Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:36 am

Smile Great news.

Are you still coming to Stealth next weekend? Going to get torque figures there?
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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by ctwg60 on Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:53 am

Yep. but I'll be taking it to Awesome for direct comparison of wheel figures. And the Yanks like Dynojet RR for some reason.

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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by Toad on Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:07 am

Excellent. Will be good to catch up there.

Need to get those bits out for Joe.
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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by ctwg60 on Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:29 am

If you can, don't kill yourself over it. Just hate to see it go to waste.

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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by ctwg60 on Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:10 pm

Plots...

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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by ctwg60 on Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:49 am

Booked into Awesome on Friday 4th at 8:30am. santa This is the final run for the Americans, cross your fingers, toes, eyes and testies for me! Very Happy Car was ridiculously fast today with the cold weather, took it to the 6500rpm rev limit on the quiet local bypass in 3rd! That'll be about 100mph then, felt like it wanted to keep going but the rev limiter spoilt our fun! Bah! Laughing

Only joking about the testies, you'll need surgery to uncross them! Ouch!

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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by ctwg60 on Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:40 am

Old Head and boost leak vs New Head and no leaks...
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I'm well happy with that!! cheers

These are wheel figures (224bhp/237lbft) made 248bhp at the flywheel.

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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by mrbeige on Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:57 am

Sweet as, Chris. So how does that stack up against the guys in the US now?

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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by ctwg60 on Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:00 am

Should be 3rd! and only 1 point average between me and the 2nd place! Laughing

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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by mrbeige on Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:13 am

That's awesome. a bloody close 3rd then! I guess that 1st and 2nd place engines are running ported chargers? I'd love to see what your engine would achieve with a ported charger. You're just running a 65mm pulley and standard charger aren't you?

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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by ctwg60 on Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:25 am

Yep. Actually the no. 1 spot is a stock charger but he's running 117 octane race fuel. Hardly fair!! They are running toothed belts which is extreme in my book. I use this engine everyday! School run, work, pleasure, I win! Very Happy

EDIT: Oh and number 2 spot broke the charger recently trying to beat his previous and the top one is in bits and no longer exists as a car! I'm just being smug and unsporting now! Glad I beat that bullshit 4th though! Very Happy


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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by mrbeige on Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:50 am

ROFL! I wouldn't say unsporting, I think that 1st is clearly not on a level playing field running race fuel, so we can ignore that one, and the fact that 2nd place isn't running can be discounted too. 1st place to Chris....whoot!

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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by jmc on Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:50 am

Great news on the results CTW. One thing puzzling me though - your power at the wheels, am I reading that right - it's really low res but it looks like it says 181 point something from Stealth, with a 53 bhp power loss. But if it is I find that really suprising, especially as at Chipwizards its 221 at the wheels with only 27 bhp powertrain loss.
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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by ctwg60 on Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:14 am

Your puzzled I nearly fell over when I saw that wheel figure at Stealth. You seemed to get of lightly that day with only 30bhp loss but I got slapped with over 50bhp loss. I've always thought Stealth gave ridiculous wheel loss figures but yeah not exactly cool to get a piece of paper saying you only have 180bhp at the wheels. I chose to ignore it and now Awesome has backed up the 220 odd wheel figures I got at Chipwizards. Wierdly they all seem to be giving me around 250bhp at the fly. Awesome gave 248.6, Chipwizards 253, and Stealth 251. Maybe it's the diesel gearbox with the 5th gear run and the day old tyres but I put 40psi in them, same as always! Neutral Chipwizards dyno's in 5th too but Awesome do it in 4th which explains the slightly higher wheel figure and lower fly figure.

I wanted to put the car on as many RR's as possible so see what each would give. I have to say though I haven't been running around shouting about my piss poor wheel figure at Stealth! Very Happy All the VR's seemed to lose a lot too that day I couldn't figure it out. I kept converting the KW reading and saying that can't be right 100KW or 130bhp @ the wheels for a VR?? scratch

That's it for me now my cars a daily from now on and no longer a dyno queen. Stock air box, and get rid of that check valve. And then when I swap over to J808 stock exhaust with a ported cast manifold. Very Happy


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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by jmc on Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:36 am

Yeah that is weird - if anything I would have expected the wheel figures to be similar and calculated flywheel figures to vary drastically. How odd...
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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by ctwg60 on Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:56 am

If you look at the list the loses are all over the place the first one a 16v only lost 6bhp and then others lost 59bhp. Just as i arrived someone said there was a problem with the rollers and they were fixing them, don't know if it was contributory. A young lad stood near us had figures for his car that were 200 measured 230 corrected and then 160 wheel! scratch I didn't say anything but it was a bit wierd, but it was a good day, with plenty of entertainment and chatter. Very Happy

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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by kevhaywire on Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:40 am

Yeah dynos can be misleading sometimes. I know stealth's rollers are bit old, worn and shiney and many cars lose traction on them.

What dynos do Awesome and chipwizards use? If they're American (Dynapack / Dynojet) rollers, their software uses a tiny trans loss figure of around 10-12% to give higher whp numbers to please their domestic market. The actual trans/wheel weight/brake drag/driveshaft/tyre etc losses is closer to 15-20%. Practically every VR6 I've seen loses 45-50hp through the losses....

Not doubting your numbers, of course. 250 @ the fly appears to be your consistent number and measurement method, which is bloody good which ever way you look at it Very Happy

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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by ctwg60 on Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:17 am

Yeah Dynojet are a bit more generous at the wheels but they also report less fly power. I'm not complaining. Chipwizards is an old dyno, I've no idea what make it is. It's just a tool for him to tune on. Smile

Nice to see them agreeing on fly power. I think chipwizards gave the most believable figures 253bhp, 27bhp trans loss and 221bhp wheel. Very Happy It's about 13% loss which is believable, 20-30% loses that you see from some roads just don't seem right.

It's funny you post bad figures and everyone shrugs. You post good figures and you end up in a discussion about the accuracies of the rolling road. Wink I'm not taking offense by the way. Thanks for the kudos Kev. Smile


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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by jmc on Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:05 pm

Absolutely, no offence meant with asking - just thought it was odd that we had such differing losses while having very similar flywheel powers.
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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by ctwg60 on Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:15 pm

As I say no offense taken. Curiosity never killed the cat, he just got pushy! Laughing I just made that up!

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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by kevhaywire on Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:07 am

ctwg60 wrote:It's funny you post bad figures and everyone shrugs. You post good figures and you end up in a discussion about the accuracies of the rolling road. Wink I'm not taking offense by the way. Thanks for the kudos Kev. Smile

Yeah you see a lot of that on American forums Very Happy They always claim the plot was photoshopped if someone posts a half decent run Laughing

Dynos are a good way to get an idea of how well (or bad) the engine is running, but the only way to get a true power reading is to take the engine out and strap it to a bench dyno..... but no one's gonna be doing that any time soon Very Happy

Rolling roads are all a bit weird imo. The results are always 'calculated'. The only thing they all have in common is they measure torque @ the dyno brake. Power is then a product of torque x distance, so 'fudged' in other words. The most common way Stealth fudge up the numbers to flatter an engine is to make the atmospheric pressure higher and the ambient temp lower.... not that yours needs flattering, but I've seen people nearly reduced to tears from getting 199hp instead of 200hp, so that's when Vince would do some 'tweaking'. But it's all horseschitt cause all dynos have an "error margin", usually around 5% to settle disputes with customers Very Happy

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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by Toad on Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:12 am

kevhaywire wrote:I've seen people nearly reduced to tears from getting 199hp instead of 200hp, so that's when Vince would do some 'tweaking'. But it's all horseschitt cause all dynos have an "error margin", usually around 5% to settle disputes with customers Very Happy

Hahahaha.

I'm pissed off with my figures not being as good as I hoped, but I'm not going to cry over them anytime soon.
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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

Post by ctwg60 on Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:31 am

I no longer care, I have my piece of paper, and it was worth every penny! Very Happy On wards and up wards! Cool

Anyway I have more serious issues at the moment. I discovered at the weekend I have a histamine reaction to all beer, wine, spirits the lot WTF am I gonna do with my right hand of an evening now!!!!

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Re: 2008cc 8.75:1 CR 3A G60 build.

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