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Dry Sump Designs

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Re: Dry Sump Designs

Post by Yandards on Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:02 am

Yeah SSDs are more mainstream now, prices are much more reasonable.

I started out with a 60GB crucial M220 one (250MB read, 120MB write) that I forked over about £180 for around 15 months ago.

Good solid disk, no read or wear issues at all, way faster than the pair of Raptors running in RAID 0.

Switched out to an OCZ Vertex 2 120GB disk (270MB read and write in a 3.5" form factor) about 6 months ago. Very quick again although not a massive step change from the Crucial disk except in terms of capacity.

According to the SMART on the Vertex its had 1/2 terabyte in writes and 3/4s of a terabyte in reads during 438 hours of power on. None of blocks has been put out of use.

I would recommend an SSD to any PC user, I put the 60GB one in a old Dell laptop running XP and it boots in seconds from power on and gives me an extra 30 minutes from the battery! Only snag is I need to run the wear levelling trim tool for XP. Even if you just use an SSD as an OS drive and keep a 1TB mech drive for storage they are just such a worthwhile upgrade - I still say it's the biggest and most noticable change for an end user since 3D accelerator cards came out (Mechwarrior 2 anyone?)


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Re: Dry Sump Designs

Post by boost panda on Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:20 am

SANDRA is telliing me my Mech RAID is 230MB Write Avg, and 125Read Avg.

For the £60 they cost me delivered, I think it's on par with the SSD performance bang per buck. Vertex 2 120s seem about £150 at the mo.

How comeit gives you extra battery life? are they more efficient? I guess less moving parts to power?
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Re: Dry Sump Designs

Post by Yandards on Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:40 am

boost panda wrote:SANDRA is telliing me my Mech RAID is 230MB Write Avg, and 125Read Avg.

For the £60 they cost me delivered, I think it's on par with the SSD performance bang per buck. Vertex 2 120s seem about £150 at the mo.

How comeit gives you extra battery life? are they more efficient? I guess less moving parts to power?

SSDs use a lot less power than a mech drive, therefore more battery juice left over; 0.5W in standby and 2W in use.

I seem to be failing here Smile

SSDs are not about raw speed (although they are quick) its the seek time that is the huge change - a WD Raptor (fastest SATA mech HDD) has a seek time of 8ms, even a early SSD has a seek time of < 0.1ms.

I did some maths on those numbers a while ago and whilst I can't recall the exact information an SSD had read around 1/4 of a 16kb file in the time it takes for the Raptor to find the file to start the read.

In summary then, they use less power, generate less heat (through less power used), are more shock tolerant than a mech drive, have stupidly quick access times and can provide read and write performance on par with a 2 mech disk RAID array. So for an OS boot disk they are really really worthwhile - your mech disk array is also reading at half the speed of the Vertex 2.

The only snag is that to ensure you get good life and performance from them you really need to be running Win 7 and have a motherboard that supports SATA 2. My HDD score in Win 7 is 7.6, my old Raptors in RAID 0 used to come in at around 4.5...

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Re: Dry Sump Designs

Post by boost panda on Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:31 am

Fair point with the seek time. Mine seem to be around 9ms I think.

I think it's the read time which really hurts the mech drives. Having to move arms across platters, however fast, is still going to be slower than solid state.

My raid registers a 5.9 in Win 7 and is the slowest part of my system.
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Re: Dry Sump Designs

Post by kevhaywire on Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:37 am

Yeah seek time on SSD is always going to be way faster than a physical arm moving across a platter.

So do these SSDs just plug into normal Hard Drive slots and the PC 'sees' it as a normal HDD?

I think if / when I build a new machine, it's the way to go. Shame the storage size is so limited at the moment, but in time they'll be up in the TBs.

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Re: Dry Sump Designs

Post by Yandards on Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:38 pm

kevhaywire wrote:Yeah seek time on SSD is always going to be way faster than a physical arm moving across a platter.

So do these SSDs just plug into normal Hard Drive slots and the PC 'sees' it as a normal HDD?

I think if / when I build a new machine, it's the way to go. Shame the storage size is so limited at the moment, but in time they'll be up in the TBs.

Yep the OS and machine just treat it as a normal disk - you do need to turn off defrag through as it fecks SSDs.

I wouldn't have bought a larger one and had to jump through the hoop of re-installing the OS and apps if I didn't think it was worthwhile.

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Re: Dry Sump Designs

Post by boost panda on Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:39 am

I like reinstalling the OS, esp on new hardware! It was so much quicker this time around! I'm feeling like I should have bought more ram though. Perhaps when the modelling kicks up a notch I can justify it.


p.s. which mods wants to split this thread into 2: dry sump and computers? starts somewhere on page 5! Very Happy
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Re: Dry Sump Designs

Post by boost panda on Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:52 am

Back to the engineering, We have been doing a lot of interesting stuff recently.

In Engines, we're learning about how to match a compressor to an engine either super or turbo, and how to read those funny turbo chart things.

In Chassis, we are modelling 1/4 (like I did before in ADAMS) and then finding both the modes of resonance for the body and the hub, and subsequently finding ideal damping ratio to cancel these out. This helps to maintain a consistant contact patch force through the tyre.

In Aero, I'm doing my final coursework on ultra-streamlined land vehicles. It will feature Land Speed Record cars fairly heavily but probably also some solar racers and other vehicles where aero is critical.

In MVP (Motorsport Vehicle Performance), we have lap time data from an F3 car going around Snetterton. We have to take all the technical data (suspension geometry, gear ratios, etc etc etc) and run it through Chassis Sim, which calculates predicted lap performance based on track and car setup, and try and get a laptime graph that is identical to the real data.

I'm just starting to apply for graduate jobs now. It seems CAD work is heavily dependant on Catia V5 which you don't get taught on the BEng. Solidworks is used in some places, but I will probably have to learn some V5 at some point. I'm looking at graduate placements and also working overseas, possibly Australia. I need to see what the deal is with that and if they even need engineers!

Yes, I would leave the Plum here.
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Re: Dry Sump Designs

Post by kevhaywire on Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:50 am

boost panda wrote:I like reinstalling the OS, esp on new hardware! It was so much quicker this time around! I'm feeling like I should have bought more ram though. Perhaps when the modelling kicks up a notch I can justify it.

It's quicker until you start piling the updates on, then it grinds to a halt again.

I've got a 7 year old IBM T23 laptop with WinXP Sp1 on it with not one single update on it. It's just as fast now as it was when it was new. It boots faster than my IBM T42p which has 3x as much RAM!

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Re: Dry Sump Designs

Post by boost panda on Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:23 am

No wonder you're not online much if you're using that old thing! he he Very Happy
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Re: Dry Sump Designs

Post by Yandards on Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:17 am

If you are doing those wierd turbo graph thingies then heres one for a G60:

Attachments
G60 Airflow Vs Power drain Vs RPM.jpg You don't have permission to download attachments.(272 Kb) Downloaded 5 times

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Re: Dry Sump Designs

Post by boost panda on Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:32 am

"from the G-Lader map, which is also characterized by steep speed characteristics, it is shown an overall efficiency of 68%."

I think the rings are the different isentropic efficiency bands showing what kind of performance you could expect in different conditions.

I will report back when I have studied it more.
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Re: Dry Sump Designs

Post by kevhaywire on Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:25 am

boost panda wrote:No wonder you're not online much if you're using that old thing! he he Very Happy

LOL, I do 95% of my foruming from work mate Very Happy My laptops never go near a network!

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