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Oil pump baffle and windage trays

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Oil pump baffle and windage trays

Post by dirtytorque on Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:55 am

Do they have different functions?
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Re: Oil pump baffle and windage trays

Post by mrbeige on Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:47 am

From what I can gather, a windage tray stops the crankshaft from hitting the oil in the sump and thus reduces any losses in the process and baffles in the sump stop the the oil pump being starved of oil during hard and prolonged cornering Smile

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Re: Oil pump baffle and windage trays

Post by dirtytorque on Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:27 am

ah,ok.
So I need the baffle along with my windage.
Just double double checking.
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Re: Oil pump baffle and windage trays

Post by ctwg60 on Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:41 am

Baffled by the baffle! Smile

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Re: Oil pump baffle and windage trays

Post by JNLRacing on Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:22 pm

Yep during hard cornering and accleration the windage tray stops oil splashing up on to the crank. The theory is less oil on the crank and less oil mist in the crankcase the faster the rotating assembly can rev up by reducing drag.

Baffled sumps is indeed designed to keep oil around the pick up area under hard cornering and acceleration/braking.

There is two types here the style with flappy gates made either from steel or rubber. These work on the principal that oil can enter the central reservation where the oil pick up is but can't exit it. Personally I find these rubbish for roadgoing cars as there is never enough oil entering the central area until you start cornering hard. So everytime you come to a stop at a junction or traffic light there is the risk of running low on oil for the pick up.

The other style is like the Schrick ones which have a series of baffles interlocking that allow for free flow of oil in both directions but reduce sloshing about under hard cornering, acceleration/braking. These work real nice on a road going car from personal experience.

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Re: Oil pump baffle and windage trays

Post by dirtytorque on Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:08 am

thnks gents.
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Re: Oil pump baffle and windage trays

Post by kevhaywire on Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:55 am

I've also seen "crank scrapers", which appear to be chunks of solid PTFE that 'wear into' the crank's profile, and I've also seen "knife edged" cranks, which I assume creates less drag as it spins through the air / oil?

What say these for a road car? Overkill?

I've never really thought about what the crank's up to at 7K, so a windage tray sounds like a good idea to me!

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Re: Oil pump baffle and windage trays

Post by ctwg60 on Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:13 am

It was introduced with the 95.5mm diesel crank so they must of had problems with either the crank beating air into the oil or causing drag.

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Re: Oil pump baffle and windage trays

Post by mrbeige on Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:54 am

I think it the crank slappng the oil, also causes frothing of the oil and reduces is lubricative (not sure if that is a word...) ability Smile

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Re: Oil pump baffle and windage trays

Post by kevhaywire on Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:15 am

See I'm confused now, if the cylinder walls need crank splash to lubricate them, how does that happen if a windage tray is in the way? scratch

TBH I've never really looked into how blocks get lubricated.... I know the pump blasts oil through the main bearings, then into con rods and up to the head, but I always assumed the bores had oil flicked up onto them and the bottom rings scraped the excess away. Is there some new clever way they lube the bores now?

The oil squirters on valvers are just for piston cooling due to the high revs, right?

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Re: Oil pump baffle and windage trays

Post by ctwg60 on Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:43 am

Yeah but ultimately that oil from the oil squirter lubes the bores. But on an engine without oil squirters I'm not so sure now about using a windage tray.

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Re: Oil pump baffle and windage trays

Post by mrbeige on Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:26 am

So how does the oil get from the head back down into the sump? The oil also goes up through the conrods as well, to lubricate the little ends as well, doesn't it?

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Re: Oil pump baffle and windage trays

Post by ctwg60 on Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:37 am

mrbeige wrote:So how does the oil get from the head back down into the sump? The oil also goes up through the conrods as well, to lubricate the little ends as well, doesn't it?

Only some rods are rifle drilled from the big end to the little end for lubrication. Oil gets back to the sump via large oil return/crankcase to head breather holes, on an 8v anyway. Only rods I've seen rifle drilled are Audi 3A but I assume 9A,6A,ACE are also. Early 8v inc. PG are not. So a 1.8 8v Gti has no rifled drilled rods and no oil squirters. Forged aftermarket I've not seen rifled either.

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Re: Oil pump baffle and windage trays

Post by JNLRacing on Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:10 pm

Oil has a multitude of ways of getting round the block.

As the oil comes through the mains bearing holes onto the crank the oil will make it's way through the cross drilled holes on the journals and eventually out of the side onto the crank counterweights.

Once the oil is on the counterweights it gets flung round the crankcase onto the bores, sidewalls, pistons, rods etc.... lubricating the rotating assembly. Your piston oil scraper ring then scrapes the oil of the bores to help lubricate the small end/wrist pin.

All the windage tray does is stop unecessary oil collecting on the crankshaft through splash during acceleration/deceleration and cornering.

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Re: Oil pump baffle and windage trays

Post by ctwg60 on Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:47 pm

OK so the main and big end bearing oil, once passed through the bearings, is the sole source of lubrication for the bores and piston pins in early engines. Makes sense.

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Re: Oil pump baffle and windage trays

Post by kevhaywire on Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:22 am

Cool, yes that makes sense.

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Re: Oil pump baffle and windage trays

Post by boost panda on Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:32 am

The viscosity equations for calculating how much "drag" or rather friction force that the crankshaft is actually overcoming when passing through a set depth of oil with a set viscosity are rather simple, I'd be happy to bash them out for anyone interested. Worth remembering that oil viscosity is inversely proportional to oil temp but I think we all know that here. Additionally, the crank will increase in size slightly when it's hot, but we're probs talking microns which is negligible in this application.
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