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Eaton chargers...

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Eaton chargers...

Post by mrbeige on Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:49 pm

Been thinking (dreaming) about the Golf VR today and was wondering what people thought of Eaton superchargers? You see a lot of Vortech (and Z-Eng.) charged and now Rotrex charged VRs, but you very rarely see Eaton chargers fitted to them. I have seen one guy on VR6OC who has stuck an M90 on one in his Golf and saw 256 bhp & 241 ftlb (@ 6.5-7 psi). How does that compare to the Vortech and Rotrii of this world? The M90 is rated for 3->5litre engines. The smaller M62 is for 2.5-4litre engines, I would think that the M90 would scavenge more power than the M62, so would the M62 be a better fit?

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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by Flusted on Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:07 am

Eatons are usually known as "Heaton" as they heat the charge air up too much. Prob not easy to fit as the m90 is huge, My lysholm is very compact and ment to be very effecient.
I was guna m62 my 8v engine
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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by kevhaywire on Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:10 am

Eatons are proper old school Positive Displacement chargers and make buckets more bottom end torque than the centrifugal jobbies (Vortech, Rotrex, Z Eng etc)

Go for the monster one they fitted to the Merc SL55 Laughing

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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by mrbeige on Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:10 am

Hmmmm, that's extremely interesting. I'd like to see the dyno plot of that VR with the M90 on it then, as I'd expect the torque curve to be really flat, if that is the case. Sounds like it would match up well to the VR profile....

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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by kevhaywire on Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:55 am

His was making 0.4 bar at 3000rpm. Centrifugals make NOTHING at 3000rpm on the VR6.

That's the difference and are much better to drive in the real world.

PD chargers aren't rev dependant like Centrifugals. Boost builds very quickly and then levels off and stays constant to the redline whereas Centrifugals make more the faster they spin.

I'd take a PD charger over a cent' any day....

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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by mrbeige on Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:11 am

Can the level of boost be changed by changing the pulley as with a centrifugal charger? I suspect not?

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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by kevhaywire on Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:32 am

Indeed it can!

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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by mrbeige on Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:59 am

Any ideas what vehicles the M62 or M90 are found on?

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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by mic_VR on Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:21 am

Aren't the M62's the ones found on the lower spec 1.8 Merc Kompressors and the Mini Cooper S's?

I heard you can get the mini pooper ones fairly cheap now.
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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by mrbeige on Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:22 am

I thought the Coopers had the M42s on them... scratch

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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by mic_VR on Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:38 am

They've both got an M and a 2 in them, what more do you want man?! Laughing
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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by boost panda on Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:24 pm

The Cooper S used to have an M45 on: now they're all turbo (circa 2007+)

M62 is fitted to:

Mercedes-Benz CLK Kompressor
Mercedes-Benz SLK 230

M90 is fitted to:

mostly american cars from what I can find.

I AM the boost monkey.
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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by mrbeige on Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:00 am

Good work monkey boy Smile

Hmmm, so Merc fit the M62 rated for 2.5 -> 4l engines onto a 2.3. Hmmm, maybe an M90 IS more suited to the 2.8 VR then?

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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by kevhaywire on Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:52 am

Yep, of course it is Very Happy

When the manufacturer says "2.5 to 4.0", always assume the lower number to the optimal one!

Another example....if the M90 is supposed to be good for 3 to 5 litres, then why does the 5 Litre SL55 use a huge M112 charger?!?!

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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by mrbeige on Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:14 am

Indeed!

So if these chargers are often referred to as 'Heaton' chargers, then an efficient intake charge cooling method would be required? Water injection or something more? Would you have to go down the spacer plate route on a VR, or could you run it standard compression as with the centrifugal chargers?

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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by dirtytorque on Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:41 am

You'd want charge cooling,especially with high compression.
and I use the word charge cooling meaning some sort of intake temperature cooling.
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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by kevhaywire on Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:46 am

mrbeige wrote:So if these chargers are often referred to as 'Heaton' chargers, then an efficient intake charge cooling method would be required? Water injection or something more? Would you have to go down the spacer plate route on a VR, or could you run it standard compression as with the centrifugal chargers?

Heatons, lol Very Happy

That's a trait of all roots type blowers, but Eaton just have a name that lends itself well to piss taking Laughing

However, you will notice all the most powerful supercharged engines in the world use Roots type blowers. Top fuel drag cars being a good example.

Since the Eaton makes boost low down, I'd be using a proper intercooler / chargecooler personally. Not a fan of water injection personally, unless you run neat meth Very Happy

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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by mrbeige on Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:57 am

I would have expected that you'd need to cool the charge properly. Could you run the VR on standard compression then?

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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by dirtytorque on Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:16 am

i would have though you'd be quite knock limited but apparently it is done on Vr's.
Apparently they can "take a little boost".

Smile
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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by dukest on Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:24 am

when i saw PeteC off the CF at Stealth at the end of last year he told me he was going to be putting an eaton out of a mini into his 8v Corrado, don't know what the timeframe was on that though.

does he come on here? i know he shies away from the CF because he thinks people would take his technical responses as slights on their knowledge, surely here would be a better place to pick his brains?! Smile

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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by boost panda on Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:37 pm

dirtytorque wrote:You'd want charge cooling,especially with high compression.
and I use the word charge cooling meaning some sort of intake temperature cooling.

What does that mean Rob? Sticking an ice cube on your boost piping would technically be intake temp cooling! Yes, I am being pedantic becuase this is a real engineering forum. Call me a knob if you like but I'm gonna nitpick.

Intercoolers are not intercoolers as we would think. The phrase was coined from WW2 when the spitfires ran twin compressors and had to cool the intake charge between them hence INTER cooler. It's just another buzzword that Kev in Max Power has used to mean an air-to-air heat exchanger.

I also think charge coolers are a misnomer. Anything that COOLS the intake CHARGE is a CHARGE COOLER! Again, call me a pedant if you will but if these basics aren't addressed then we may as well throw any complex (or even simple) engineering calcs out the window. Terminology can be key. I would think a better name for a Charge Cooler is a Air-Water heat exchanger. I think CC is a fair name to use, but it's not right to use it referring to only a A-W HE as both items effectively cool the intake charge.

....And now I'm banned. Sad
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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by mrbeige on Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:50 pm

boost monkey wrote:....And now I'm banned. Sad
Nope, as you are correct. An inter-cooler can be either air-to-air or water-to-air. I think it's just become the norm to call water-to-air coolers charge coolers and air-to-air coolers intercoolers.

It's all semantics at the end of the day Smile

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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by boost panda on Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:53 pm

Yeah it is. I guess I'm just a stickler for technical accuracy. For the sake of everyone knowing what each other is talking about, I guess it's worth keeping the current name conventions...

p.s. I hate pedants and loathe being pedantic. I just think some naming conventions should be addressed Idea
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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by dirtytorque on Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:03 pm

[quote="boost monkey"]
dirtytorque wrote:
What does that mean Rob? Sticking an ice cube on your boost piping would technically be intake temp cooling! Yes, I am being pedantic becuase this is a real engineering forum. Call me a knob if you like but I'm gonna nitpick.


....And now I'm banned. Sad

what are you like.
You answer this in your own post.


I also think charge coolers are a misnomer. Anything that COOLS the intake CHARGE is a CHARGE COOLER!

rather than meaning charge cooling in the common sense of the word.
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Re: Eaton chargers...

Post by kevhaywire on Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:36 am

dukest wrote:does he come on here? i know he shies away from the CF because he thinks people would take his technical responses as slights on their knowledge, surely here would be a better place to pick his brains?! Smile

Oh please..... let's not start with with that nonsense. It's refreshing being on here to escape that crap. If he's scared of conflict, he won't come on here either because he and I don't get on.

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